Moderator: Chief Couch Potato Kylie
Who: “Supernatural” airs on network TV, specifically on the CW, though it is currently on hiatus; this past season, the show aired on Thursdays at 8:00 PM.
What: “Supernatural,” a drama depicting the tale of two brothers, Sam and Dean Winchester (Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles, respectively), who are “hunters” of all supernatural ilk, be they demons, monsters, or angels on high, in a quest to save the world from things that go bump in the night, things that cause apocalypses, and things that are generally just out to get them (for a more detailed Synopsis, read here: http://www.aceshowbiz.com/tv/supernatural/summary.html).
When: The Season 13 finale aired on May 17, 2018, at 8:00 PM on the CW.
Where: The show is set in no specific locale; the brothers ride all over the country in a 1967 Chevrolet Impala and live out of hotel rooms via fake identities and money scams, though the Winchesters are originally from Lawrence, Kansas, and have, as late, holed up in a bunker, somewhere near their home town, formerly run by the Men of Letters, an organization of which they are legacy members. The time is present day.
Why: Oh so many seasons ago now, Chief CP Kylie followed Jensen Ackles–a fine, fine man–from Smallville to his new gig, which, at the time, seemed like a different spin on the X-Files, with two brothers versus two sexually tense FBI agents. From the opening frames of the pilot, though, I knew that it was oh so much more or, at least, vastly dissimilar to the X-Files, and this show has surpassed so many expectations, including mustering the incredible ability to remain relevant and engaging long past the expiration of the initial story arc mapped out by creator Eric Kripke. For CPU!’s ever-expanding podcast coverage of a growing number of shows, several CPU! members, all familiar voices to the CPU! loyal, jumped up to participate on this panel, even though many of them also express fatigue with the show from time to time. How do they feel the show is faring nowadays, into its double digits’ worth of seasons? Take a listen below.
How – as in How’s It Going? (THOUGHTS…at present)
To catch up on our Super-coverage, click the embedded links below, or find the audio equivalents on iTunes, Stitcher Radio, and Google Play (links further below):
The Season 9 Premiere
Seasons Nine, Ten, and Eleven
Our Super-CPU! panel experienced more changes since its last meeting! Two sticking-around panelists happily returned to the Water Cooler to stick around some more; two panelists triumphantly reentered this dimension from temporary hellatus, no doubt after living the high life in the Apocalypse World; and one voice new to the panel but not to the podcast jumped on board to render our Supernatural panel newly full again! All panelists proved eager to talk about the second half of this unluckily numbered season with gusto. Thus, Nick, Jen (S), Kelsey, Jeremy, and new panelist Jenn (K), along with your trusty Chief CP and moderator, hop into our ’67 Chevy Impala, always ready to ride until we, or Supernatural, die(s), as we discuss major plot points from, and ruminate upon the success of, the second half of Season 13. While our panel’s particular devotion and/or brotherly bond continues to be sometimes tested in Supernatural’s later seasons, we still have lots to think and to talk about and to gush over whilst pining for the brothers and/or Cas (well, I don’t think Nick is pining…unless there’s something we don’t know). Give us a listen, with your salt guns and holy water on standby, and see if you agree or disagree with our thoughts.
This podcast was recorded in August 2018, and there are, without question, MAJOR SPOILERS, as the panelists cover key plot points of the second half of Season 13 of Supernatural. Listen at your own risk, and let us know what you think by commenting below!
Follow us on Facebook, Twitter (@cpupodcast), Instagram (@couchpotatoesunite), Pinterest (@cpupodcast), or email us at firstname.lastname@example.org – or subscribe to this blog, the YouTube channel, our iTunes channel, our Stitcher Radio channel , and/or find us on Google Play to keep track of brand new episodes. In the meantime, let us know what you think! Comment or review us in any of the above forums – we’d love your feedback!
Remember, new episodes and blog posts are published weekly! Next Wednesday, our X-Files panel triumphantly returns to the Water Cooler after a whopping two-year hellatus of its own to ruminate upon the latest revival Season 11 and to speculate upon whether Agents Mulder and Scully are done for good, since Gillian Anderson explicitly told the press she was finito earlier this year). Stay tuned!
Questions, Impressions, and Future Considerations
1) REPEAT QUESTION: How many miles are on the Impala after all this time?
REPEAT ANSWER: Still unknown.
2) REPEAT QUESTION: Will they ever get their happy ending?
REPEAT ANSWER: While the panel is in no particular rush for a series finale, although maybe that’s less true nowadays, it’s likely the brothers will not find peace until they are done. That’s why Kansas tells them to Carry On, Wayward Sons. “Lay your weary head to rest; don’t you cry no more.”
3) REPEAT QUESTION: If Lucifer (Mark Pelligrino) is out of the Cage, why can’t the archangel Michael, currently housed within long lost Winchester half brother Adam, escape from the Cage? Will we ever see Adam/Michael again?
NEW ANSWER: Well…we see a version of Michael this season, namely the Michael from “Apocalypse World,” where the archangel offed his brother Lucifer and now leads all angels in a war against demons and humans. Does this mean we will also see a return of Adam/Michael in this dimension? The answer is “not this season,” but the introduction of this New Michael could foretell a convergence of some heavenly forces we have previously met in order to stay the zealous New Michael’s blood lust. Although, as of the end of this season, the forces have not (yet) converged as expected…keep reading.
4) REPEAT QUESTION: Crowley is dead as well, sacrificing his own life in exchange for a spell cast in an attempt to trap Lucifer in the alternate universe – only with Crowley’s death, Mark A. Sheppard also announced his departure from the show, so it seems the King of Hell is permanently pushing up demonic daisies. Is this why Rowena is killed off? Is she, in fact, killed off? Or, did Rowena make a deal with the devil that allows her to survive? She’s been quite the survivor so far, after all.
NEW ANSWER: As we surmised, owing to a sizable clue from the improbably still alive Arthur Ketch, former British Man of Letters, who informs Sam and Dean that he was able to cheat death using a spell of the erstwhile King of Hell’s mum, Rowena reappears, having cheated death, or Death, once more. In fact, in Season 13B, she seeks the boys’ help with the intention of changing Fate to save her son Crowley aka Fergus from permanent daisy pushing. Unfortunately, Billie the Reaper aka Death, the Horseman Of, informs her that this is not to be.
5) REPEAT QUESTION: Will Jack be next season’s Big Bad? Will Lucifer? If neither of them are, who will be?
NEW ANSWER: The panel correctly predicted that Apocalypse World Michael would be the leading Big Bad of Season 13. Asmodeus, as it turns out, was more bark than bite, except to Archangel Gabriel aka Loki aka the Trickster, who Asmodeus apparently captured after Gabriel cheated death by hand of devilish Lucifer in Season Five with a tricky Trickster slight of hand and a double of himself, unbeknownst to the Winchesters – or the viewer – since that time.
6) The perennial question: will we see John Winchester this season? And played by whom? And will he be alive or dead?
ANSWER: Perennially unanswered…
7) REPEAT QUESTION: How much of this alternate universe will we be dealing with, overall? Will we continue to see alterna-Bobby (Jim Beaver)? Will the apocalypse of that world spill into this one? Will it cause another apocalypse on this side of the space/time tear?
NEW ANSWER: As it turns out, we spend quite a bit of time in Apocalypse World (AW), particularly in Season 13’s second half. After Jack (Alexander Calvert) uses erstwhile Wayward Sister Kaia to dream-walk through dimensions, he finds himself stuck in AW with the intention of rescuing Mother Mary Winchester. Mary, in the meantime, looks after Jack, particularly while Mary is held captive by AW Michael and, when they escape, while both parties fight for the Resistance. In fact, toward the end of the season, the brothers, Castiel (Misha Collins), and Lucifer also take a trip to the AW, as AW Michael’s aim to find his way to Supernatural Prime world, i.e. this world, becomes ever more likely. We see AW Bobby in addition to AW Prophet Kevin Tran, AW Charlie Bradbury (Felicia Day), and AW Castiel, who curiously sports a German accent, for Chuck knows why. As for AW spilling into the Prime world, this prediction sort of comes true in a way. First, Sam and Dean convince Mary to convince the Resistance fighters, who she has befriended, to come to Prime world to regroup in the face of the growing threat and success of Michael’s angelic troops. In the meantime, Prime World’s Lucifer makes a deal with AW Michael to bring him to Prime World in exchange for Michael doing no harm to Lucifer’s son Jack, meaning that Lucifer escorts this murderous version of his younger archangel brother to the regular world. This proves to be a miscalculation for all concerned. While no apocalypse on this side of the rift has yet begun, the entire Resistance and AW Michael are on this side, making it plenty likely that Apocalypse 3.0 or 4.0 (what number are we on, anyway?) will start any day now. Plus, the button on that season finale….listen to the podcast episode for details…
8) REPEAT QUESTION: A Prince of Hell named Ramiel held in his possession two intriguing items: Archangel Michael’s Spear or Lance and (wait for it) the Colt. The Colt is currently broken, snapped in two by another Prince of Hell named Dagon, who Cas later snuffed. Can the Colt be repaired? By Sam? How is the Colt powered? Didn’t the Colt have a fixed number of bullets once upon a time? More importantly, **where did the Colt go after Season 6?** How did Ramiel get a hold of it? Why has the show not addressed the continuity of this gun? Why was it brought back only to be broken? WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS THING?!
REPEAT-ISH ANSWER: All questions currently without answers, including those about the Spear/Lance. Though Michael, perhaps in all his incarnations, is going to be a big player in Season 14 (listen to the podcast episode for details).
9) REPEAT QUESTION: Also, the Spear/Lance is broken, I believe with Crowley’s help in that instance. Will it be repaired, since Dean pockets the fragments? Is it usable by anyone besides Michael? Dean is still a predestined Michael vessel – can he use it? We repeat – will we ever see Michael out of the Cage again?
REPEAT ANSWER: Though the Spear/Lance remains broken, and though Supernatural Prime world’s Michael is still housed in half-brother Adam in Hell’s Cage, it may yet come to play…
10) REPEAT QUESTION: The Vampire Alpha dies in this season, owing to some clever British Men of Letter work. Does this mean that all vampires die? I know this is not The Originals, but what happens to the rest of the vampires in the event of the death of their alpha?
NEW ANSWER: Sheriff Donna encounters vampires this season. HOW ARE THERE VAMPIRES? What exactly does it mean to be an Alpha? Dear Show Producers – we actually keep track of this stuff, yo! And we are confused by the explanation or perception of monster “alphas.”
11) Where is the “Bad Place?” Are there really dinosaurs, Big-Feet, or Godzillas making footprints over there? What made the giant lizard footprint in the mid-season finale? How will Sam and Dean get back to the dimension/world they call home? Will the “Wayward Sisters” have to be the ones to rescue them?
ANSWER: The Bad Place is another dimension, another world, another version of Earth, where there are great big monsters that make great big, giant footprints. As for the boys getting back to Prime World, they have Castiel’s human host, Jimmy’s, daughter, i.e. Wayward Sister Claire, to thank for that. Jack and Kaia’s efforts leave a lingering opening rift to this other dimension. Claire resolves to save the boys, and she has some back up from Sheriffs Jody and Donna, as well as the other Wayward Sisters, to do it. Her gambit, though messy, is ultimately successful. Unfortunately, the Wayward Sisters backdoor pilot was not.
12) What side will Jack fall on in the end? Will he defend the Winchesters until he cannot defend them anymore? Or, will he align with his dad? Or, will he align with a wild card third party, like Castiel, Apocalypse World Michael, or Asmodeus?
ANSWER: Jack, despite all of his Dad’s best efforts, remains essentially “Chaotic Good,” though Lucifer’s antics near the end of the season may have permanently removed some of the chaos associated with Jack’s archangel nephilim status. Jack does his best to defend both the Winchesters and Castiel, even against his Dad when they finally have a chance to talk and when Lucifer starts spinning his web of devilish temptations, but Lucifer ultimately chooses to sacrifice his own son in the end to guarantee his power, in the poster example of the deadliest sin of Pride/Vanity, and to ward off the AW version of his brother, Michael. Jack fights against AW Michael and is determined to kill him while he is in the AW, right up until Lucifer steals his own son’s grace on this side of the dimensional rift. What will this mean for Jack next season? Only time will tell.
13) Just how much of the “Wayward Sisters” will we be watching on the parent show? The panel votes, hopefully, not so much.
ANSWER: Thankfully, it was really just one more episode, namely the episode following the mid-season break. The CW did not order the spin-off to series, and the Wayward Sisters do not reappear on Supernatural for the rest of the season.
14) Is Michael from Apocalypse World truly the Big Bad of the season? Will he break through to this dimension? Will he run up against Jack? Will he break the “Shedim” out of hell?
ANSWER: Yes, AW Michael is Season 13’s Big Bad. Jack is ready to take him out in AW but does not get a solid chance. Plus, AW Michael is now on this side of the dimensional divide, thanks to the wheeling and dealing of Prime World’s Lucifer. As for the “Shedim,” it seems they are a plot device that is quickly forgotten, particularly since Asmodeus, the final Prince of Hell, is quickly snuffed out by the very-much-alive (at the time) and totally back on his groove Archangel Gabriel.
15) Will Lucifer encounter his son? Will Jack have to battle his dad? Will Jack be wooed by the lure of being with his actual father? Or, will he remain true to Sam, Dean, and Cas?
ANSWER: Lucifer finally achieves some father/son bonding time in AW after Rowena, also not dead, opens the rift and accidentally fights off the Devil by magically blowing him into the rift, through which the Winchesters and Cas already passed, in order to save Mother Mary and Jack. There is no true battle between Lucifer and Jack; when Lucifer eventually double crosses his son, which comes as no surprise to anyone but Jack himself, Lucifer steals Jack’s grace and ups his own mojo in the process. Jack is temporarily wooed by the prospect of spending time with Dad, particularly when Lucifer attempts to convince Jack to leave Earth with him following Lucifer’s deal with AW Michael, who plans to take over Prime World. In the end, though, Jack remains true to those he believes to be his family: the brothers and angel Cas, who care for him for most of the entire six months of his life.
16) What point or purpose does Prince of Hell Asmodeus really serve, if any at all?
ANSWER: Asmodeus is really mostly a B villain, there to pose some threat to the Winchesters and to Castiel (and to Jack) while the plot stays primarily in Prime World. We find out, however, that Asmodeus, who Lucifer described as the “runt of the litter” in terms of Hell’s princes, is able to become strong because he captured the long-lost, not-dead Gabriel and is siphoning off his grace. In the end, though, Asmodeus is gone as quickly as his Colonel Sanders, white suit wearing visage is introduced, particularly when Gabriel rediscovers his own ruthless streak again.
17) Is the show trying to suggest that Jack might be Chuck/God’s successor, capable of creating other life, such as new angels, who are apparently becoming extinct? How many angels, exactly, are left? And why do they stupidly keep going after the Winchesters, Cas, or anyone else related to them?
ANSWER: The first question does not have an answer, though Jack becoming a new God seems unlikely, if Lucifer stealing his son’s grace is somehow permanent. Regarding the second question, according to a surprisingly alive angel Naomi, there are exactly 11 angels left, including Cas and Lucifer, but not including Jack or Gabriel. Regarding the third question, the angels essentially stop pursuing the Winchesters and Cas, though they hope that Jack and, later, Lucifer (of all angels) can help them keep Heaven afloat. As Naomi explains, the angels are what allow Heaven to exist; they keep the lights on and the gates pearly. Unfortunately, with the imminent extinction of angels, Heaven is holding on by a thread, and Naomi makes no bones about telling Cas that, should Heaven fail, all of the souls currently housed there would fall to Earth and be ripe for the plucking by Hell’s Demons. So…about that Apocalypse…
18) Will Sam’s powers return? He continues to obliquely reference them…
ANSWER: So far, Sam has not tapped into the allegedly dormant powers he received from Prince of Hell Azazel, but, with the end of the season as it is, he might need to think outside of the box and use those powers for the good of the entire universe in the coming season.
19) How will Jack return to this dimension, if at all? Will he save mother Mary? Will Mary keep him on the good side of “chaotic neutral?” Will Sam and Dean reunite with their mother? Will Mary survive all that Supernatural throws at her?
ANSWER: Jack returns to this dimension via the help of a witch on a redemption arc, namely Rowena, who helps open the rift for the Winchesters and Cas and who holds it open as long as they are in AW. Mary and Jack are able to return with the boys and Cas, along with the rest of the AW Angel Resistance, through the rift. Jack is arguably “chaotic good” now, though he does seem, at least when he has his grace, that he has better control of his powers in the second half of Season 13. Sam and Dean also reunite with Mary in AW, who is not willing to come back with them at first, having aligned herself with the Resistance fighters when she learns from AW Bobby that an absence of Mary making her crossroads deal in AW, and not having her children, indirectly led to the Angel War that tore apart that dimension. So far, Mary survives – and may be nurturing some chemistry with Bobby. Would that be weird? We’re on the fence.
20) How much should we continue to care about the Empty? Will it come back to haunt Castiel or any of the rest of our characters because Cas escaped?
ANSWER: So far, the Empty stays empty. We visit once for the sake of Cas’ resurrection, but the show has not revisited the concept. Of course, angels are near extinct, and demons aren’t faring better given the turnover in the Throne of Hell position. We might yet see (or not see) the Empty again.
21) How will Lucifer and Cas escape Asmodeus’ captivity – we assume they will?
ANSWER: Lucifer, though at minimum grace levels, practices super hard; he realizes that he has just enough grace and just enough archangel prowess (he is the Devil, after all) to unlock the cages that hold him and Cas in Hell. For that moment, the two angels team up and leave Hell, until Cas returns to the Winchesters, and Lucifer decides to knock on Heaven’s door. Comedy abounds.
22) Has Death, as in The Horseman Of, died before the Winchesters killed off the Death we knew and awoke the Darkness? Is Billie the second “Death” or one of many?
ANSWER: Still questions, particularly for panelist Nick, that are without answers at this time.
23) Why are the Winchesters “important,” in the end and apart from what we already know, as Billie aka Death told Dean in the first half of the season?
ANSWER: We have a feeling that this answer is ultimately part of the endgame for the series, and that we will not know said answer until the show is about to be done.
24) When we will see Bobby and Rowena return (because, frankly, the question of “if” has been spoiled by the characters’ portraying actors)?
ANSWER: Both characters return fairly early on in the second half of Season 13. Rowena seeks the Black Grimoire to help resurrect her son Crowley by taunting Billie the Reaper aka the New Death through the magical smiting of Reapers to get her attention. Mary and Jack, after escaping AW Michael’s captivity via ruse perpetrated by AW Prophet Kevin Tran, quickly find Bobby’s encampment/arm of the Angel Resistance in AW.
25) How are Jack and the previous “anti-Christ” who appeared in Season 5 related, if at all? Is Jack truly an “anti-Christ?”
ANSWER: Still questions without answers.
1) SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER….At the end of the season, Dean offers himself, as Michael’s Sword, his true vessel, to AW Michael in order to have strength enough to defeat Lucifer, souped up on Jack’s grace, which he steals from his confused and betrayed son. Despite a tenuous deal with the archangel, wherein Dean would retain control of his body and mind, AW Michael double crosses him and takes over his vessel fully, meaning as we start Season Fourteen, the Dean we know and love will be sublimated by AW Michael, who, at last check, was very interested in ending humans’ existence in Supernatural Prime world. Is this still his plan? What will he do first? How long will we see Dean as AW Michael? Will Dean fight AW Michael, in an epic internal battle for his soul?
2) Dean as AW Michael also seems to definitively defeat Lucifer, his wings torched and all. Is the Devil truly dead? How can that be possible?
3) Sam is Lucifer’s true vessel and now does not have that option to defeat Michael. What can he do to save his brother? Will he have to tap his Azazel powers? Can Rowena resurrect an archangel? Will he lead the Angel Resistance on this side of the rift? How will he get his brother back?
4) Is Jack powerless? Will he regain his grace? How? Will his power be enough to save Dean? To save this world? To save Heaven?
5) Are Mary and AW Bobby flirting? Are they going to be a romantic item in future? Is that wise?
6) Is the Shedim an abandoned concept, with the quick death of Asmodeus?
7) Will they break this world’s Michael, still stuck in Adam the half brother and locked in Hell’s Cage, out of his prison? Even though Lucifer drove him mad?
8) Will the remaining angels join a fight for or against AW Michael? Will AW Michael snuff out the rest of the angels?
9) Will we see Heaven collapse next season?
10) Will the show actually be able to convince Jeffrey Dean Morgan to return, either in the event that we’re barreling toward the end of the show and/or if Heaven collapses, since he’s supposed to be up there somewhere?
11) Without Princes of Hell, Crowley, or Lucifer, who’s in charge downstairs?
12) How will they be able to defeat a super-charged AW Michael, made stronger by his perfect vessel, Dean?
13) Will Chuck/God return to help arbiter these extra-worldly conflicts? He might have to return to create more angels, to resurrect any that have been lost, and/or to help quell the conflict with AW Michael. Will Amara/the Darkness return with him?
14) Will the show explain how it is that nephilim are stronger than the angels (or archangels, in some circumstances) that sire them?
15) Will we see any of the Wayward Sisters again, aside from Sheriff Jody and Sheriff Donna, i.e. Claire, Kaia, Patience, etc., despite the fact that the proposed spin-off was not picked up?
Our newly full Supernatural panel presented an increasingly diverse range of opinions about the most recent SPN half season. Though much of our panel began watching this season encouraged by the mysteries, story threads, and new spins on some old horror tropes offered by Season 13, after struggling with the show during what the panel deemed to be a choppy and somewhat disjointed twelfth season, the second half of the season and, particularly, the brief end of season button divided our panel markedly. Some enjoyed the season, noting the modestly fresh new aspects to this long-running story, including the interactions between mother Mary and Lucifer, the wild card that is Lucifer’s son Jack, and the return of a version of archangel Michael who, in no small way, resembles the Lucifer with which we have grown acquainted over eight or more seasons. Some watch the series motivated by the curiosity that comes with needing to complete what was started, thirteen years or less ago (in fact, one panelist remarked that he likes to pay the bills while the show is on). Still others, particularly the Chief CP, are filled with a renewed excitement by the prospect of what’s to come, feeling that Dean’s specific end of season fate constitutes a true “game changer” designed to steer the series toward an epic conclusion, which is likely nearer than we would want or expect, depending upon the viewer in question. In any event, the fresh takes introduced this season, even the “Wayward Sisters,” coupled with the usual elements that keep Super fans coming back for more, helped the show to rebound from the lulls of Season 12 quite nicely. As such, the panel members all still agree that Supernatural could never be completely unwatchable, owing to the writing, acting, and quirks of the mythology (and the sheer beauty of its cast). Though we are in the acknowledged winter of the program’s longevity, there remains nothing like Supernatural on TV right now, and despite the panel members’ individual gripes and barbs about things that strike us as strange – even for such a strange world as we have been watching for thirteen seasons – all panel members feel that the show is still entertaining, even this late in its lifetime. Carry On, Wayward Sons, as we prepare to start Season 14!
Supernatural was renewed for a fourteenth season, which is slated to premiere on Thursday, October 11, 2018, at 8:00 PM. The Supernatural podcast panel will next reconvene following the fourteenth mid-season finale, which will likely air in or around December 2018. As always, CPU! will keep you informed of news and additional show coverage. Until then!